A very personal and intimate talk with Enrico Paoli, guitarist and main composer of the italian epic metal group Domine. It is probably the best interview i had all those years and Enrico is very open and shares a lot of information and experience.
It is an iconic Italian epic metal band (vastly underrated in my opinion – as is usual when someone gives attention to quality and not merchandising) which I had the joy to watch at Into Battle IV fest.
Their love for epic fantasy is profound (many songs about Elric, Corum and Conan) and that’s where we will mainly dwell.
| LoÖ: firstly, I would like to say that it is a real pleasure having this interview with you, people who love (and create) epic metal and love epic fantasy. | Thank you very much, and hello to all the readers out there! |
| LoÖ: How you got involved with the multiverse of M. Moorcock’s and the tales of Eternal Champion? What is the appeal of these old tales and how it affected your song writing. Was Moorcock your major literary influence? comment: well all the “classics” are there and i have read more or less most of the them as well. Although i have never read the fiction novels of M Moorcock maybe i will… | Well, I got into Heroic Fantasy and Sword & Sorcery books before I got into music. I was a kid during the 70’s and in that decade, there was a big interest about books like The Lord Of The Rings, The Sword Of Shannara and the Conan books. I got to read those from my brother Riccardo, bass player in Domine, who is one year older than me. One of our uncles had a huge book collection of Science Fiction and Fantasy books, that’s where I found the Elric books, in Italy the now called classic saga was published in two books originally. He had all those books by Poul Anderson, C.J. Cherryh, Gene Wolfe, Ursula Le Guin, K.E. Wagner, Lin Carter…and many science fition books. Then later, in the mid 80’s, I realized Micheal Moorcock had written many books and I started to get all the English versions, as a lot of his books were not translated in Italian language or they were out of print. I found a small English book store in Florence where I could find some second-hand books. That’s how I got the books about The Eternal Champion, Corum, Hawkmoon, Jerry Cornelius and so on, even the weird Science Fiction stuff like The Black Corridor and INRI/Behold The Man. So I was an Heroic Fantasy fan before I got into music, but when I started to write my own songs for Domine I was totally into Michael Moorcock books, I had been reading only those books for years, so it was a big influence. It was natural to write music inspired by those books and, of course, by my fave Metal bands as Manowar, Maiden, Sabbath, Warlord, Virgin Steele, Angel Witch… |
| LoÖ: what’s your favorite Elric story? How the anti-hero albino sorcerer bearer of the cursed sword affected you? comment: the first story is probably “Dreaming City” a wonderful story so anticlimactic that set new standards for what a hero stands for. “Kings In Darkness” has so many adventure-rpg elements! I am not sure what the last is because Elric has such a tangled timeline of published books but i will go with “Doomed Lord’s Passing” where Elric finally dies… Moorcock has indeed inspired many artists (myself included) in many different genres as he will in the far future | I really love the first and the last books, and “Kings In Darkness” is one of my fave story. We recorded a song about that in a demo tape, back in 1989, but the song never made in any proper album. Those books had been a real source of inspiration, as I always thought our songs needed that kind of lyrics to fit with the music mood. Just love the character even though I must say we don’t own the character and we are not the first or the last to be inspired by those stories. Cirith Ungol used the best Elric cover artwork for the first album, and Blue Oyster Cult wrote the best Elric song with “Black Blade” with Micheal Moorcock himself, In my opinion. We are just following. But I’m happy when people tells me they discovered the Elric books because of our music, it’s a kind of payback. Also, Micheal Moorcock himself wrote back when I sent our first album, he was very kind. |
| LoÖ: Corum the prince in the scarlet robe and the prince with the silver hand is one of my favourite eternal champion heroes. He combines tales of Celtic myth to the fantasy setting of Moorcock’s multiverse. Celtic mythology is very strange to the GrecoRoman pantheon when you found out about other gods and mythologies and how you place them with your native ones? comment: it is very healthy to distinguish religion and spirituality! circles are another of universal laws and mysteries! | Well, Italy is a Christian catholic country, so even if I’m not a believer I was raised with those values. I got to know about the classic Greek and Roman mythology at first because my dad used to put me to sleep telling stories about ancient mythology, you know, like the Troy war myths, like they were super heroes stories 😊 Then I got to study the ancient myths in school, especially by Homer and Virgil writings. Yes, I love the Corum’s trilogies because of the Celtic myths. I’ve always been in Celtic music too, Chieftains and Planxty, but mostly because of Thin Lizzy and Horslips. They are very different but at the same time you can see some common themes, as in every religion. Then I believe there’s some link between Italy and Ireland, probably because of the Catholic religion, so, you see, it’s a circle. |
| LoÖ: what other heroes of the eternal champion tales do you like and have not yet written (if I am not mistaken) songs about them? My favourite one is Von Bek and the story “the warhound and the world’s pain” is my favourite Moorcock story ever, while Hawkmoon is another favourite hero. comment: yeh all these interlocking stories combining different heroes from his books really strengthen the myth of the eternal champion and were very interesting to read | I haven’t written anything about Hawkmoon which I love very much. But I don’t really go like “let’s write a song about this character”. All the songs I’ve written came because of inspiration. The fact I’ve written many songs about Michael Moorcock’s books and characters is because for some years I’ve read his books only, one after the other, and always looking around to find books I missed. It was a kind of obsession, like when you discover a band and you want to listen to all the albums. That’s why I put the subtitle “The Three who are one part I” to “The Prince in the scarlet robe”, the original idea was to write more songs, the do “The Four who are one”, but then…I don’t know, I got into Ancient Spirit Rising” and the inspiration was very different. So, really, I don’t know what will come next. They may even be songs about different characters by different writers. |
| LoÖ: your first official LP is almost a concept album but there is a song “the midnight meat train” (manilla road had one similar in out of the abyss) that doesn’t fit how it came to be! comment: still there are some few interesting concept albums and i would like to have more but maybe in a broader way like an opera. I have read Clive Barker’s books in the past but i am not so much into horror in the modern way, Lovecraft and gothic horror is a different matter entirely of course! the last comment is very sad indeed | Yes, almost, but it’s not a concept album. I understand some people say that because our albums sound like concept albums, but I’ve never written a real concept album with one story told through the songs. I think concept albums made by Heavy Metal bands are usually very bad, very simple stories and without a real unity in music. I like concepts like “Think As A Brick” by Jethro Tull (which was a spoof of concept albums in reality), or “Tales From Topographic Oceans” by Yes, of “The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway” by Genesis or “Tommy” and “Quadrophenia” by The Who. In those albums there are really interesting stories or themes and the music is really like an opera, with musical themes that comes back during the songs. Heavy Metal “concept albums” are usually just 10 songs with very simple conceptual lyrics, usually boring. I think it’s difficult to do a real concept album. “Champion Eternal” is an album which contains songs which were written from 1984 to 1994, all of which appeared in our 4 demo tapes, so there’s not a story that links those songs. So, “The Midnight Meat Train” is a song inspired by the novel of the same name by Clive Barker, an artist which wrote some great horror books and directed a few great movies. I really love that story and I wrote a song about it, it was in the “Bearer Of The Sword” demo tape, in 1991. I’m a big big horror movies fan, and I love horror books too, from Stephen King to H.P.Lovecraft. In the late 80’s Clive Barker was quite big in those days, he wrote some great books and directed the movie “Hellraiser” which is one of my fave horror movies. Also “The Mass Of Chaos” had some horror tones in the lyrics. It may sounds out of place in the middle of songs with Heroic Fantasy lyrics but I would love to be able to write about everything I want. Most of Heavy Metal fans don’t care about lyrics anyway. |
| LoÖ: in your songs mix the old European gods, fantasy gods of chaos and law as well as Christian myths, where do you stand in religion (being from a highly religious country)? comment: well vatican and spirituality are totally different meanings so i am totally with you in that (as in everything above actually) and i can say the same for the greek orthodox church… | I’ve anticipated your question above. I was raised as a Christian catholic but I’m not a believer. I actually despise the Vatican, as it’s just an institution which control people with the good old fear of god, and has more economic power than spiritual. Ok, some of the priests in small towns and villages are trying to help people and create good communities, but all those cardinals on TV with all those rich capes look just like some of the Dune characters, power mad rich pigs. I do believe in a spiritual side of life, I’m not a full agnostic and materialistic person, but I’m not following any organized religion. I do believe there is a spiritual part in each person, which is the real spirit of the person, the one which can express deep feelings and push you to live a positive life. |
| LoÖ: and among all these Chaos comes a song inspired by one of the greatest European composer Richard Wagner, is classical music something you listen to often and when? comment: can they play louder than hell!!! classic music and heavy metal are really connected. | Yes I do. I love classical music. It is the most epic and grandiose style of music ever, an orchestra of 50 music professors can sound louder than Manowar! Ahahahahah! Again, in every album of ours there is a bit of classical music, some themes from W.A. Mozart, G. Holst, I. Stravinsky, R. Wagner. Basil Poledouris is the perfect example of classic music which can be totally epic. But I’m not classically trained, I took guitar lessons when I was 14 and I could read music then, but then I gave up when I started the band, and that was a big mistake. Classic music is also the very first example of music combined with mythology and there’s a lot of Metal music which is influenced by that. Again, we are not the first or the last. Rainbow were great with that. |
| LoÖ: the ring of Nibelungen’s besides being one of the classic myths and stories of western Europe (along with Beowulf and Arthur) was also a great inspiration for J R R Tolkien (another favourite author of mine), how is it that you haven’t written a song about middle earth, have you read Tolkien’s books? comment: we certainly love the underground it much closer to the normal metalhead! Maybe Tolkien is too pure and simple in his concepts to be of inspiration and Moorcock offers more bizarre paradigms! | Actually “Dark Emperor” in the first album is in part inspired by “The Lord Of The Rings”. Yes, I’ve read the main Tolkien’s books, The Lord Of The Rings was the first Heroic Fantasy book I’ve read. I’ve read TLOTR in English language too, I love the Silmarillion too, even if the beginning is a bit difficult. But, again, I was not that inspired to write songs about it. Maybe in the future. Michael Moorcock was one of those writers which went in a different style of Heroic Fantasy, which I honestly prefer, as also Karl Edward Wagner, Robert E. Howard, Fritz Leiber, you know…the dark Sword & Sorcery style. But don’t get me wrong, I love Tolkien but, like in music, sometimes the less known artists can be more interesting than the popular ones. You may love Iron Maiden but you look for the more underground bands too. |
| LoÖ: Frank Herbert’s Dune is also an inspiration for your lyrics (Herbert is also one of my favorite authors). When did you read dune for the first time have you finished the whole set of books and have you indulged into the dune universe by the books written after Herbert’s death by his son? comment: well i love all the six dune books because i admire what Herbert created and managed to display a many thousand years of history although the first ones are slightly better! The books by his son are not literate marvels but offer a great insight in the Dune universe with a lot of information on ideas and events shown or mentioned in the main books, good reads if you can find the time although they are many! | Oh yes! Big fan of the classic Dune saga. Very epic stuff indeed! I’ve read the first book in ‘84? ‘85 maybe? I’ve seen the David Lynch movie first, which I love despite the big differences in the story, I think it’s a great epic movie. Then I’ve read the rest of the classic saga later, and I really love “The God Emperor of Dune”, even though I must admit I found “Heretics” and “Chapterhouse” not as good as the rest. That’s probably why I’ve never read the books by Brian Herbert. Should I? |
| LoÖ: in your last album I feel that you have changed your lyric inspiration away from books but instead of you draw inspiration by the books to form your own philosophy and attitude, am I correct in this or I am missing something? comment: i have found interesting the pre-raphaelites painters and very epic with the use of colors and technique as epic. well i may add you are not a commercial success but you are a big artist… (at least for some of us) | Yes, more or less so. As I said before, I’m not looking around to find a book I should write about, it was the story or the character which inspired me to write a song. During the years, I’ve written more songs about personal subjects. “Ancient Spirit Rising” is an album which was a little different. For the lyrics I also wanted to do something more personal. The previous CDs contained many songs based on specific Heroic Fantasy and Science Fiction novels, like we said before. However, I wanted this record to talk about more universal and spiritual themes, about life, death, love, hate and personal ideas on these topics. All written, of course, in a poetic, romantic and epic key, to be able to blend it with the music. It is a bit like what many writers of the past did, including the writers of the Victorian age, who took ‘classical’ myths and reworked them with personal themes. In recent years, I have been strongly influenced by this type of art and the Pre-Raphaelites. At the Tate Gallery in London there is a wonderful painting by William Waterhouse called ‘The Lady of Shalott’ which was the inspiration for the whole CD, the painting and Alfred Tennyson’s poem of the same title. Also, I love a lot of song-writers like Tori Amos, Kate Bush, Bob Dylan, Nick Drake, Rufus Wainwright, Freddie Mercury who were able to write very personal lyrics and then re-propose them in a very poetic way. That’s kind of what I wanted to start doing with that album, with all the due proportions, those are big artists, I’m just a metalhead. But “I Stand Alone (After The Fall) is an Elric song. For the future we’ll see. |
| LoÖ: Your band is now forty years old what’s your plans for the future? comment: well we will welcome both a new album(s) more gigs (like the into battle fest in sep 23) but we would like to hear about your other ideas we might find them interesting! | I really don’t know! Ahahahaha! I wish I have this big masterplan but I don’t, never had. The very idea to play Heavy Metal in Italy is a lost battle from the start if you want to be a professional musician. We all have day jobs anyway, we play because of passion for music. We would love to make a new album, fans ask for it every day. And play some gigs. The music business has changed so much. We have ideas but in the end it’s all about a new album and new gigs. |
| LoÖ: your last record was back in 2007 (an excellent album I might add!) what kept you away from recording and do you have material for a new one? comment: yeh family and kids tend to have this side effect! we will wait for a new album whenever it comes out that’s for sure | Simple facts of life. As a matter of fact, our lives changed a lot during these years, three of us have kids and we can’t really dedicate time to the band like we used to. Kids arrived, parents went. We are happy to play some gigs and we want to make a new album. Don’t ask me when, I don’t know. For the previous album, we went out of our home town for a full month. “Ancient Spirit Rising” especially took a hard work to make. I lived out of home for a month, my day job is in music distribution, so a new Domine album was part of my work. Now the music market is completely different. Domine is a small band. But I can tell you we had been in a new recording studio, built by our live sound engineer, who is a close friend of mine, we grew up together, and we recorded an 11 minutes song…. |
| LoÖ: I have read on fb that you are thinking or reissuing your old lps in vinyl again for all of us fans and collectors who don’t own them is this true and do you have anything more solid to add? comment: so i dont see anything in any near future it seems to much work to do but i would like some Domine LPs in my collection so if you could… | I’m actually gathering the graphic parts to put everything together. The problem is, especially for the first three albums, the covers and lay outs were designed for CD only and printed using films, a technology which is long gone. I need to gather all the parts again and make new scans etc. I hope we can do something this year. It’s crazy, as LPs sound so much worse that CDs and people are all streaming music now, listening to music with their bloody phones, so in a way I love people who are still listening to LPs, as it’s a ritual to get the vinyl, play it with your turntable, opening the gatefold sleeve. I personally buy bootlegs on vinyl by Queen and Kiss. |
| LoÖ: finally I would like to thank you for your interview another dream of mine to speak with you has come true. Wish you merry Christmas and a happy new year! | Thank you very much for the interview and let me thanks all your readers who are still interested in the band, nothing is for granted. Thanks a lot and I hoe to see you soon. Ciao ! Enrico |
What a wonderful, mind-blowing, rich and information full interview. the things i learnt and the things i was tempted to find out were too many.
i hope everybody enjoyed it as much i did Domine are a real epic metal band but above it they are modest everyday people who choose the path of music giving to their fans good soul inspiring metal not just commercial trash. I hope i will see them again in a live!
the interview took so long to be completed as it started in early december and ended a few days ago when i got the final doc. Of course family life, work are factors that detract you (and me) from your hobbys but finally i managed to get everything ready!
